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Church leader argues people choose sexuality

Published: Thursday, December 10, 2009

Updated: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:12


Editor's Note: This is part four of a five-part series addressing the gay community and its relationship to organized religion. Part four focuses on a local church that offers a ministry dealing with homosexuality.

Like many churches, Westview Community Church in Manhattan, believes homosexuality is a choice and is wrong.

Unlike most churches, however, Westview takes a proactive stance, offering a program, called "Living Waters" to help individuals who want support resisting homosexual urges.

Many oppose Living Waters's belief that homosexuality is a choice.

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation," states a pamphlet from the American Psychological Association released in May 2008. According to the pamphlet, there has been no adequate scientific research to prove that therapy aimed to change sexual orientation is safe or effective.

Joyce Baptist, assistant professor in marriage and family therapy, has a similar view.

"I have never found a gay person who said that it was a choice they had," Baptist said. "It was who they were, and it was an identity that formed over time."

She said she finds it aggravating that programs offered to people are not based on accurate information about human sexuality.

Baptist has conducted research for her dissertation, entitled "Coming Out: One Family's Story," on the gay and lesbian population, primarily gay men. She looked at the process men went through when they realized they were gay, and studied how they chose to live as homosexuals and the effects on their families and communities.

"One of the basic Christian ideas is that we are created in the image of God," said the Rev. R. Kent Cormack, pastor and teacher at First Congregational United Church of Christ in Manhattan "So to say that people who are made one way instead of another implies that they are not a full reflection of that image of God."

Deb Kluttz, the executive pastor of Westview, disagrees. She said the issue of homosexuality is becoming more black and white. She said the "gray area" is fading and people and churches find themselves having to choose whether to attend a church that allows openly gay worshippers or not.

"Biblically, where I stand, I think inside there is a place where we know it's just unnatural, and an unnatural way to live," Kluttz said. "I think that people want out. They just feel like this is not OK. ‘I'm not OK, this is wrong.'"

She said the Living Waters program had two participants who were seeking help resisting homosexuality, and since their completion of the program they continue to struggle.

While Living Waters uses a group-based counseling system, conversion and reparative therapy programs often use more aggressive measures to change a person's orientation. These programs cite research conducted by Robert L. Spitzer, who has purportedly provided scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.

Spitzer, a retired psychiatry professor at Columbia University, was hailed as an ally to the gay community when he assisted in the 1973 removal of homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorders. In 2003, Spitzer lost that status when he published results of a 16-month study reflecting homosexual orientation could be changed with therapy.

Eleven percent of the men and 37 percent of the women in Spitzer's study reported a complete reorientation from homosexual to heterosexual after the 16-month study.

The APA does not recognize Spitzer's research as legitimate because it does not follow the scientific method of a study, said Clinton Anderson, associate executive director and director of the LGBT concerns office for the American Psychological Association.

"The sample he studied voluntarily engaged with hopes of changing so you cannot use the data to say the treatment caused the effect," Anderson said.

He said only a handful of adequate scientific studies have met the criteria for examination, and there is little or no evidence that treatments change orientation. There is more evidence they change behavior, but that is more voluntarily controlled, Clinton said.

Kluttz said homosexuality is influenced by many factors. The influences are where Westview church puts its focus. Kluttz said many homosexuals have been sexually abused, typically by men.

"Gals that have been sexually abused by men, I've seen them go one of two ways," Kluttz said. "They either go extremely promiscuous because their boundaries were just mowed over, or they gain weight, they don't wear makeup, they try to draw no attention to their body. The body has been a source of pain and they want to disconnect from their femininity."

Jenine Reimer, a former small group leader and a marriage and family therapist, said above all else, her priority is to do what is best for the individual. She said the church offers intense screenings to ensure no one is "destroyed" in the process of the program.

"I struggle with whether it's a choice or it's genetic," Reimer said. "If you come from a stance that it is a biological genetic thing, then I would have to agree that Living Waters would not be best for a person like that because, it could, in the process hurt them more and make them feel shameful and damage their self esteem in that regard."

Reimer was the small group leader of the victims of sexual abuse during the first Living Waters program at Westview. She is scheduled to return for the second session of Living Waters as a guest lecturer on proper boundaries.

Kluttz said all people chosen to lead groups first receive certification from Desert Streams, and most leaders in the Living Waters program have been through trauma of some type in their own lives.

"This is kind of simplistic terms to say this, but who can better help someone who's an alcoholic than someone who has been there and come through it?" Reimer said. "They may not have master's training in it, but they have life training in it."

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23 comments

Anonymous
Fri Oct 14 2011 05:26
The president of KState should set the record straight, that homosexuality is an acquired perverted behaviour, and that it is not a genetic or congenital problem. The president should stop all openly homosexual groups on campus. We don't tolerate groups who promote serial murder or incest or sex with young children or bestiality. Why should we allow groups who promote the acceptance of the filthy perversion of homosexuality?
Anonymous
Wed Jul 20 2011 17:46
This shouldn't even be an argument. It's wrong. I am not gay, but have gay friends. Herein lies the issue -- even if it was ever proven that someone was born "gay" (and it's never been proven), that still doesn't justify the wrong behavior. Are there people born with tendencies toward violence, alcoholism, etc.? Do we try and work that into some social justice thing, too? "Well, I know he assaulted this person, but he was born with that tendency." There is an excellent book I would recommend that dives into these arguments, written by an ex-gay (his words). It's called "The Gay Gospel: How pro-gay advocates misread the Bible."
Adam B
Tue Mar 8 2011 03:11
If the chief argument against the possibility of a genetic component contributing to homosexuality is rooted in the idea that God created us in his image, then I would like to go on record as saying I think that is the most presumptuous basis an argument could be made on. How does anyone propose to know what God's image may look like and if indeed a person were to confine themselves to this idea without exception then is it not more rational to adjust the lenses through which you perceive God as apposed to trying to convince millions of people on earth at any given time that they MUST be living a lie because surely when they stare in the mirror it couldn't be possible that a gay God could be staring back at them.

The sad thing about so many religious people is that they feel it is their duty to be the judge and jury of those around them. One of the fundamental tenants of virtually all major religions is that no man has the authority to judge another but God. For a church, mosque, synagogue, temple or any other major religious venue to exclude services or rights to a group of people based on a difference of opinion is counter to the shared guiding principals of the religions that deem those venues sacred. Religion at its core is about love, forgiveness, kindness, peace, compassion, equality and fellowship. To shame an individual for the way he or she was born or to shame them for a personal choice they have made is in itself, shameful and I believe the Jesus Christ I have read about my entire life would mourn at the realization that such exclusionary practices were being institutionalized and in turn proliferated in his name. If you wish to know the Jesus Christ from the Christian Bible I recommend picking up one of the Bible's where Jesus' words are all in red for easier reading. Anyone who disagrees with my understanding of Jesus should validate their opinion with a direct quote where Jesus encourages us to judge our fellow mortal men and women for their differences. I would appreciate it if someone would earmark all the incidents in the Bible where Jesus preaches a message of anti-gay rhetoric, where he calls on the leadership of his movement to create a program to rehabilitate those individuals who disagree with the syntax in the definition of marriage. I would challenge anyone to find me any evidence of what Jesus thought of the nuances of marriage because in fact Jesus himself died in his 30's without ever even getting so much as engaged. If I were to reflect on the life of Jesus through the same judgmental lenses many of his followers today do I might point out the fact that Jesus, an unmarried man, lived and traveled with 12 men of similar age and a prostitute. Think about that....and the other stuff I wrote too. :)

Theresa
Wed Feb 9 2011 11:37
Why do people think gay's cannot reproduce? Hello, there is a thing called surrogate mothers and sperm donors. I as a gay female can have children with a sperm donor. A gay man who hires a surrogate mother to carry his seed can reproduce as well. This is evolution with the benefit of science. WE WILL SURVIVE AND BREED AND LIVE the way we want to, with or without the love of your so called GOD!
Anonymous
Wed Oct 13 2010 14:56
It's not genetic nor it is a choice. I would say homosexuality is formed psychologically depending on the environment you grew up in
Anonymous
Fri Oct 1 2010 07:01
Homosexuality is no more genetic than zoophilia (those who practice bestiality) or heterosexual fornication or adultery. Why is it every pervert wants to claim he has some genetic basis for his sin? Well, actually those other perverts I mentioned don't do that, but some homosexuals sure do.
Anonymous
Fri Oct 1 2010 03:45
Just because psychiatrists can't cure homosexuality doesn't mean it is genetic. They can't cure sociopaths or serial killers either, but these perversions are not genetic either. A real church of God will preach to gays, but will never allow them to stay in fellowship if they do not repent of their sin.
Anonymous
Tue Sep 14 2010 09:57
i am a bi teen and if i could choose to be straight so i wouldnt be hurt or bullied everyday i would but i cant because its not a choice for me
KSUgrad8686
Tue Dec 22 2009 13:31
In reference to the genetics question, there is this crazy thing called recessive genes. Children can exhibit traits that their parents themselves do not, as they are just carriers. It could also be biological, not genetic.
KSUgrad8686
Tue Dec 22 2009 13:31
In reference to the genetics question, there is this crazy thing called recessive genes. Children can exhibit traits that their parents themselves do not, as they are just carriers. It could also be biological, not genetic.
Just wondering???
Mon Dec 14 2009 14:17
If it is genetic...how does it continue.....to reproduce......to continue the DNA???
Your name
Fri Dec 11 2009 23:52
With all this focus on being gay and on the actual act of sex, I wonder if this simply has to do with some natural repulsion for those who object. Does the thought of your parents getting it on and having an exciting steamy night also repulse you? Should you not also object to their sex and shame them into stopping that evil practice so it can make you feel a little better? Does thought of two really obese hetro-sexual people having sex also repulse you? Should we not shame them too with some arbitrary sense of morality to shield yourself from these repulse thoughts? Get real.

Although sex can be the highlight of a relationship for some, there is a lot more to a relationship than that. And certainly any healthy relationship is going to be built on more than sex. Being gay is about who we fall in love with, who we want to share life with and grow old with, and yes who we want to have sex with. But stop obsessing about the sex. If it gives you the willies than for your lord's sake, think of something else! Geez.

Your name
Fri Dec 11 2009 23:38
"Your Name" referring to Darwinism, you need to get an overview of the latest scientific evidence of same sex behavior in animals and humans. I recommend the Weekly December 5-11, 2009 issue of New Scientist which has an excellent article titled "Homosexual Selection" on page 49. Your opinion and statements are simply ignorant of our current understanding. Scientists don't have ALL the answers, but we are finding that there are very reasonable explanations for why homosexual behavior exists in certain species and why it is overall beneficial to that species. For example, in humans it is possible that while a single copy of a gene may promote survival, two copies may promote homosexuality.
Your name
Fri Dec 11 2009 14:42
This should play right into the theory of Darwinism. If it is genetics, the Darwinist would say great. Homosexuals are an inferior being. They cannot reproduce, thus, survival of the fittest. What's the issue?

I however, disagree. It is a choice, and a perverted choice at that.

Dave
Fri Dec 11 2009 14:38
Maybe it's choice, maybe it's a genetic mutation. Who knows? The choice comes into play when one chooses to act on this sinful desire. This is what the religious community is saying. We all have sinful desires. I am married, I may find myself attracted to a woman who is not my wife. I don't act on that because I know it is wrong. Just with someone who has homosexual desires; to recognize that these feelings are wrong and making the decision not to act on them, forsaking your fleshly desires says a lot more about your character than simply saying, well this is how I feel so it must be right. I feel like beating the snot out of a lot of people but I don't because I know it's wrong. I feel like following the idiot who pulled out in front of me and pulling him out of his car but, I don't because it is wrong. We all feel like doing a lot of things and don't, because we know it is wrong.

Homosexuality has become more prevalent in todays society I believe largely due to the fact that society is ignoring its moral compass. The large liberal and feminist movement of 60's and 70's has also greatly contributed to the ultimate demise of the traditional family model. I know I am going to catch some flack for that statement but, I don't care.

The bottom line is this, homosexuality and alternative lifestyles are a choice, the choice is to either act on those feelings, or listen to your conscience and deny the fleshly desires for what you know in your heart to be right.

David Cross
Thu Dec 10 2009 15:57
Oops. For the record, the post below is a quote from a David Cross standup routine. But I think it sums up the rational argument pretty well.
Your name
Thu Dec 10 2009 15:56
It's genetics, it's not a choice. There's no f*&$ing 16-year-old heterosexual boy, confused, socially awkward, acne-scarred kid sitting around in his bedroom going, "Guys, everyone hates me and the girls that I like don't like me and I don't know what to do and the thought of having sex with another man is physically repelling to me.......but you know, maybe it's time I invited even more nonstop harassment into my life."

Yeah, that'll be fun. Things have been going so easy, why don't I just introduce the concept of getting the sh*& kicked out of me by a bunch of f*&%in' retards? Yeah, that's a fun choice to make. That's a choice a lot of people are making.

Jo Foy, graduate student in the College of Education
Thu Dec 10 2009 11:52
As Bill above notes, Suicide is the most common reason LGBTQI children (under 18) die in the United States, and the percentage of LGBTQI children committing suicide is much greater than any other group. This tells me that homophobia is rampant in schools, in families, among parents, in churches. If, as the Kinsey Report told us in the 1950's, 10% of the population is LGBTQI (I believe it is more like 20%+), is it really okay to reject those children? Are children the next generation? Or do we just believe that OUR children (mine and yours) are the next generation?

If we applied the reasoning that "I don't like what you are" to many other groups of children, who would be left? If we decided that we wanted to outwardly practice racism as it was practiced in the 1950's, would we just allow Black kids to commit suicide at an alarming rate and call that okay? If we didn't like that Hispanic kids speak Spanish to each other in the halls or kids from the Middle East speak Arabic or Farsi in the hallways, could we just allow those kids to be rejected? Would we just be "fine" with their suicide?

The Master Jesus himself, according to the Bible in my home, was completely full of compassion for children and adults from all places and all walks of life. When Paul speaks of certain activities within the Roman Empire he speaks of pedophilia (a power issue), not consenting sexual relations among adults. Much of Paul's writings must be taken in context. Plus much of what was actually written during both Jesus' and Paul's time was excluded at the Council of Nicea; what is left became the popular canon of both the Catholic and Protestant bibles.

Finally, gender is constructed; sexuality is constructed. Within the article above, there are many stereotypes taken as fact. If you take the time to listen to the stories of college students coming out today, you will hear the struggle, the conflict. It is both internal and external. It is our (external) homophobic societal values that make the internal so difficult. When that homophobia is backed up by an institution such as the Church, a child who is just realizing their LGBTQI-ness doesn't have a chance. Not giving a child a chance to question is sentencing them to the trails and tribulations of this young man whose story was featured in the first two articles.

ashley
Thu Dec 10 2009 11:50
I have really enjoyed this series so far, but I do hope that the last segment covers the welcoming aspects of religious communities in Manhattan.
Rev JDSpears
Thu Dec 10 2009 11:19
Although, overall, this article seems to be balanced, it also presents some falsehoods. One such is: "These programs cite research conducted by Robert L. Spitzer, who has purportedly provided scientific evidence that sexual orientation can be changed." It is true that the ex-gay ministries present their interpretation of his reseach that is not his conclusion. Further he stated that their use of his reseach in the way they have is disengenuous. He acknowledged early on that the polling he did did not rise anywhere near being a valid statement of sexuality.

What is upsetting is to see the people after any reparative tharopy, many damaged but such programs. To stand on scripture is a fine thing, provided that the full, unbiased, interpretation of that scripture is true. Sadly those that espouse homosexulity as a choice, intentionally misinterpret scripture.







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